The Impact of Family Dynamics on Long-Term Financial Health

I’m Irvin Schorsch, the founder and president of Pennsylvania Capital Management. As you know, our mission is to not only create wealth and help our clients preserve it, but also to provide solutions as we’re going to do here today through the lens of money and financing communications as our clients’ lives change. I’m excited to introduce you to a world-renowned leader in family dynamics, Dr. Moss Jackson. Dr. Jackson works with individuals and families to help them understand their family challenges in living productive and successful lives. He has recently published this book, Anxiety Sucks, talking about all the anxiety issues that families face in their communication with each other.

What excites me about today is now we get to hear how that applies to encouraging that right type of family culture where kids do learn how to save early on and become successful investors early in their lives, instead of avoiding it and turning around at age 40 or 50 and saying, “Why don’t I have any money?” We’ve seen so much in the news lately about breakdowns in family communications. I’d like you to elaborate as a starter here for what are some of those roadblocks that you see, and what are your thoughts on the struggles that families face in light of the changes going on in the world all around us?

It has to do with being able to step away from the family, from the parents, from the kids, and get a larger view. It’s like you’re watching a movie, like you need to be an observer. So as an observer, because most of my work, I’m a participant observer. I watch, I listen and then I step in and try to give people feedback as to what I see, and then kind of jam them up a little bit. So I might say to a parent, “Is it your intention to make your son or daughter feel like he’s infantile, like he’s stupid? Because your comment that you just made suggests that he’s not very smart. Is that what you’re saying?” Sometimes I take a very direct approach. Other times I’m much more slow starting in order to get parents and get the participants to stop the fighting, stop the power struggle. Because I think right now, we’re going through a very difficult time in our world, in our country, in our society, thus, in our families.

The family is a microcosm. It’s in the marinade of what’s happening all around us. So what’s happening around us? What’s happening around us is we have a revolution. A number of revolutions. One is a really interesting one, Irvin, which is longevity. I gave a talk in 2016 at the first Revolution Against Aging and Death. Brilliant people, about a thousand participants looking at the research on longevity. They were looking at the possibility that by 2030, there’d be a major breakthrough in … I forgot the word they used. It was Raymond Kurzweil, who was the chief researcher for Google. Google, I think, has put up a billion dollars to cure aging. Can you imagine that? Cure aging. Aging is the disease. It’s not cancer, heart disease, because if you can cure aging, there’s no disease. It’s a different way of looking at it. That’s the nature of the revolution. You’re looking at it from a different angle.

But it’s very disruptive. Because I remember they were talking about, “Well, we could get people through stem cell, through 3D printing.” We can now 3D print bladders and esophagus, colon. In a few years, we’ll be able to 3D almost every organ in your body. We could just 3D it. There’s no organ reject. We put it right in, and it gives you another 5, 7, 10, 12 years. In 2011, I had an aortic valve, pig’s valve placed in my chest because my aortic valve had a leak. Well, that’s still pumping away. It’s doing its job. Every time I see my cardiologist, he says, “I love that murmuring sound. That sounded so good. Your aortic valve is working, and if it doesn’t work, we’ll put in another one.”

This suggests to some of us that maybe by 2030, 2040, definitely by 2050, we’re going to have such breakthroughs in medicine, scientific discoveries that people born at that time will probably be living 150 to 200 years. Children born today have a lifespan of about 125 years. Because I remember in the meeting someone said, “Well, what’s the point in living that long? Are we going to be healthy? Are we going to be discrepant?” Is that the right word? When your body falls apart?

Decrepit.

Decrepit, yeah. I mean, who the hell wants to live 125 with a broken body that you can’t walk up the stairs? Or you fall a lot and break your bones. The whole question is, how do we live well now to live longer? And if we’re going to live longer, how do we finance it? Look, I’m 83. I love my work. I feel deeply involved. I do research. I’ve written seven books. I have the mind and energy of a 42-year-old in the body of an 83-year-old. However, my biological markers are around 62. I do things to keep myself healthy and vital.

Let me stop you for just a moment. As an 83-year-old, what are some of the takeaways you could tell our listening audience that they could do themselves to get to your state of activity, sharpness and vitality when they’re 83?

I had a session today with a 50-year-old guy, lovely guy, easy to be with, but he’s failing financially. He’s gone through three bankruptcies in his life and he says, “The only time I feel safe is when I’m bankrupt, because then people leave me alone.” So I said, “Your problem is not bankruptcy. Your problem is people making demands on you and you giving them because you have trouble saying no.” I said, “Let’s talk about that. Where does that come from?” We discovered he has a belief, we call this a limiting belief, and it might be useful for everyone listening to think about what limiting belief do you have.

His limiting belief goes back to when he was eight. His father told him he was a useless piece of junk. He used other words. Really, really belittled him, humiliated him, was contemptuous, shut him out, never treated him with respect. I don’t think he ever wanted him, and he grew up with a point of view called “I’m not good enough. I don’t deserve to be wealthy.” He would make wealth and then he would give it away or lose it. Isn’t that fascinating? His eight-year-old is still running his financial companies.

Actually, let’s take that thought. The limiting factor for this gentleman kept him from creating wealth and maintaining it. If we take a look at that in light of your 50 plus years, if not more, of treating your clients or your patient, what does that tell us about what we should be doing with our young children at age seven, eight, nine, so that they begin to learn the meaning of saving a buck and investing it, so they can build for that 100 plus year life.

Number one, as parents, we want to think what’s the end in mind. What is our goal as parents? Number one, I think, is to launch successful children. And then we have to define what do we mean by successful. Do we mean that they’re going to do things our way, or do we encourage them to be independent thinkers? Do we encourage them to develop executive skills, like initiation of projects, perseverance, having grit, follow through, being able to admit a mistake. The moving forward, I think, if you want to raise healthy, vital kids who are living well, they’ll live longer, you want to reduce what we call the stress hormones in their body. So if the child fails or the teenager fails and the parent gets angry and says, “What are you doing here,” with a contemptuous tone. And like, “You should not be getting this grade. We’d didn’t raise you to get an F or a D.”

That’s going to create, “Why am I going to talk to my parent about failing? I’m going to get beaten up. I feel stupid enough as it is with the grade.” I like what the coach … I forgot his name. Maybe you remember the coach of the Wisconsin NFL football team. I think was called the “Bear”. There was an important football game in the ’60s or ’70s, and a tight end went out to catch a really important pass, and it was going to be the touchdown. A minute before the game was over, it was the fourth-down throw and he missed it, and they lost the game. In the locker room, all the players were avoiding him. They quickly took a shower. He’s sitting on the bench, head in his hands, realizing the coach is going to come in and ream him out, because the coach had a reputation for being really tough.

Coach comes in smoking a cigar, has his hat on, long, overcoat, cold winter day in Wisconsin, in Green Bay, looks around the room, and he says to all the players, “Nobody leave the room.” He goes over to the player who missed the ball, sits down next to him, takes his coat off, the player still by the way is in his uniform, puts an arm around him and says, “You had a really tough day today. I hope you learned something from that mistake because you’re never going to make that mistake again. We’re going to practice tomorrow, so you’ll never make that mistake again, and you will have the confidence to catch that ball when a 250-pound animal is coming to break your legs.” And he never made that mistake again. But see, that’s taking advantage of a crisis. Not using a crisis to clobber somebody. Not using failure as a reflection on you as a parent, so to speak.

So you want to nurture people when they’re broken. That’s a big job of parenting is when kids fail, don’t scream. Don’t yell to coach. Don’t yell at them because they don’t have enough money. Say, “Oh wow, this is really tough. You have an allowance at $5 a week,” or whatever it is, “you spent it all in one day.” We call that one marshmallow of thinking. One marshmallow of thinking, I’ll tell you about that if we have time. “And now, what are you going to do between now and next Friday? Because I’m not just going to give you in advance. If you want to talk about earning some money, I’ll be glad to have that conversation.”

What can you share with our listeners about the gaps you see in today’s family schedules and how difficult it is with, in many cases, dual working spouses? That that family time that was here, where you could have those thoughtful family conversations, a lot of that’s disappeared. How do our families in today’s culture overcome that whole syndrome?

I think if you, as a parent, take a step back and realize we live in a fragmented society, in a fragmented world, and we don’t have cohesion; it’s rare. Look at Israel and Gaza. Look at our political parties, and our marriages. We have more one-parent families now than we ever have. I think it’s about 40%, 45%. Children are getting married later. Kids are staying in the households longer. Not unusual for kids with college degrees to come back and live at home. So we have fragmented families. I’m not saying that critically. I’m just saying we don’t quite understand yet the new rules and new norms of how do we work together. I grew up in a family where my mother was a night nurse; my father was a salesman. He was not home after four o’clock. He was out on the road. My mom went to work at 11 o’clock, but she was still sleeping when we got home. So we grew up in a fragmented family.

Most of the families did not have working mothers when I was a teenager, but we needed the money. So my mother, during the Second World War, sold stuff on the black market. Later she dealt with antiques, bought antiques and sold them, sometimes raised the prices way above, made up stories about them. I think part of the reason I’m a good storyteller is my mother was a fantastic storyteller, and then she got a job as a night nurse and loved it, but she was not home. So I had to learn how to deal with my fear of being alone. I said, “Bruce, I got ghosts in my closet. I can’t go to bed.” He said, “Well, turn on the light.” So I would turn on the light and they would go away.

But nowadays, we have fragmented families. We have two parents working, two parents trying to make a go. How much is it to earn a house now? You talk to someone in their 20s, the first thing they say is, “I can never afford a house, much less get married.” So they work on their careers until 32, 33, 34 before they get married. The age of marriage, when I was a young man, we got married, guys, when we were 21, 22. Now men are marrying when they’re 32, 33, 34. Same thing with women. There’s a whole decade difference. So as parents, we have different norms than when we see our kids trying to figure out. By the time they’re 30, most young people who have had about six jobs. Maybe you and I grew up at a time when we had one job. We worked in a factory or we went to graduate school, and we went into a career.

Young people now, they’re also fragmented because they don’t know exactly what to do. I have two grandkids. One is 16, the other one is 12. My 16-year-old is a very industrious girl. She does babysitting during the week. She gets paid for babysitting anywhere between $15 and $25 an hour. She can make $150 a week. She doesn’t go to her parents. She has money. Now what happens is her mom says to her, “Well, let’s take a look at all this money and your spending versus your savings. You can spend it all now, but what happens if you don’t have money because people aren’t going to hire you? Now you’re in an emergency crisis state, so you will need to start to think about your crisis money resource.” And the daughter said, “Well, how do you do that?” And she said, “Well, why don’t you think about putting money aside? Maybe we’ll put in a jar first, then we’ll go to the bank, open up a bank account. Then we’ll figure out once you’ve accumulated enough money how you can invest it.” Saving precedes investment. That was my daughter’s suggestion to her. So they save. She saves 20% of whatever she earns.

But now with my grandson who was ready, firing; not ready, aim, fire. As soon as he gets a buck, it’s gone. So I said to him, “Listen, I know you love money, but you blow through money like a fire is going through California. It’s burning up forests. You’re burning up money. You have nothing left. When you go to your parents, they tell you to scram. Now I know you have difficulty planning and organizing.” Now we’re talking about executive skills. One of the things parents can start to think about, what are the executive skills young kids have? I wrote down several. I wrote down … this is for young kids.

He needs skills in a working memory, planning and prioritizing, goal-directed persistence. So I said to him, “I know you are tempted.” Why? Because your eyes are bigger than your stomach. I said to him, “Let’s figure this out.” I would talk to him in a very soft [inaudible 00:14:58]. I say, “Hey, look, I know you really, really want money for Roblox, and Roblox is all about money. You don’t mind spending the money to build up an empire online. Your parents don’t understand it, but I think I get it. I really do.” “When I was a kid,” I said, “I would save up money. We’d get Cheerios boxes or Wheaties, and we’d have these little things we could send away and get little toys back. Now it’s different. It’s not little toys. It’s expensive software.”

So he said, “Well, how can I do that, granddad?” And I said, “Well, look, I’m willing to fund you and hire you as a resource.” I said to him, “What’s a resource?” So we talked about that. “You could be a resource for me, and I need help anyway, because I have trouble at times bending down and lifting up. I love you. You love me. So if you want to do a deal, how about things like putting your dishes away, taking your plates from the table. If you want to make extra money, take other people’s plates. Scrape all the food from the plates and put them in the dishwasher, not just the sink. That’s an A-level player. If you’re a B level player, just put them in the sink. You make your bed. You take your clothes and put them in the hamper.” So we made a list of maybe four things. It wasn’t very complicated.

Now, some parents would say, “Why are you paying your grandchild for chores that he should be doing on his own?” And that’s how they talk to the kids. [inaudible 00:16:26] can’t do it? Why do I have to keep reminding you to put your toys away? To hang your coat up? Well, kids don’t remember that stuff because they don’t have good working memories, but we can develop working memories by paying them to do tasks. I said, “Look, I really love the house to be organized, and I want to hire a personal assistant. I have a grown-up personal assistant. She does certain things for me and I make money from her being a personal assistant, but I pay her well. I’m willing to pay you, if you do a good job, and we’ll talk about all the things that have to be done, and we’ll choose four or maybe three, maybe five. You choose five. That’s a lot of work. If you choose two, that’s easy. So we’ve got to figure out what are you willing to … If you do two, you’ll get two bucks a day. If you choose five, five bucks a day. But they have to be done at a certain level.”

See, if parents look at what the kid is supposed to do, and the kid doesn’t do it, you’re going to have fighting. You’re going to have upset kids, upset parents, and that upset is going to stay in their bodies for anywhere from three to six hours. So who the hell wants to be in a household that’s fragmented emotionally? So I’ve come up … it’s not only me, I think other people who practice. And I think this is all tied in to financial wisdom, which is, I’m teaching the kid to look at the task, look at what is he up to. Remember Goldilocks and the Three Bears? Too hot, too cold, just right; too hard, too soft, just right. I say to him, “Look, this might be too easy. This might be too hard. What are you up for?”

I want to build a sense of perspective, taking on a challenge. And his daughter loves what I do. His father says, “You shouldn’t pay him. He should be doing this on his own.” I said, “No, that’s the way you were raised. In my household, this is my household, and if I want to do this for your kids or my kids, I want to do it. Are you willing to back off? And I promise you, this will teach your kids more responsibility.”

We’re taking your steps and going one step further at Pennsylvania Capital.

Because in my book, Reinvent Rich: How to Make More Moments, More Meaning in life, what we did in chapter 14 called Child’s Pay mirrors a lot of what you just described.

What we did a step further was we said, “Let’s develop the equivalent of a pension plan, but for children who are doing projects; babysitting in the neighborhood, they could be cutting the lawn, they could be shoveling the snow. But if they get a 1099 or a W-2 for the work they did, because they worked all year long, they’re then eligible to doing a Roth IRA as they grow a little older.”

What we did for our kids, I obviously can’t discuss with our oath of confidentiality, I can’t discuss clients, but for my family, we say, “If you’ll put a dollar away in that Roth IRA until you’re 59 and a half or older, there’d be no penalties. At that point, you do with it anything you want. But in the meantime, mom and I, through the bank of dad and mom, are going to match every dollar you put in your Roth IRA by your choice. But it’s going to go in your car savings account because we will not be buying you a car, but we’ll help you with this funding method, which will look just like what you’ll get when you’re out in the real world and you get a job and they say, ‘We’re going to match your 401(k) or your 403(b).'”

That’s correct.

Which are the real world examples of this type of ongoing savings plan. And in both cases, it’s with either tax deferral or tax-free growth.

Wonderful.

And eventually they say, “Oh, I notice all these things that are in that Roth IRA that you set up for me. What do I do with them now?” In Reinvent Rich, what I point out is now’s the time to make mistakes, when the money is little. So I want you to go out and buy and sell whatever you think needs to be adjusted, and I’m here if you want to ask questions. But I won’t be deciding it, even though I’m a financial pro, but I’m here as a resource in case you want to discuss it.

So, in each of the three kids’ examples in my family, eventually each of them said, “Dad, tell me more about that account we had going on for a while.” And we also do some gifting of a small share or two at birthdays and Christmases so that these things build up to the point where when they start to get their own statements, they go, “This is really interesting. Let’s talk more.” So we’re creating that sense of curiosity about what we as parents have done, to encourage them to be good savers first and good investors over time, that all three of them have become.

It strikes me that what you’re doing is something called experiential learning rather than lecturing, telling, directing, because nobody wants to be sold. They want to buy. So when parents lecture and dictate, it’s not experiential learning. You just described a really brilliant way of teaching children to save, incentivize savings, because you’re giving an interest by matching their dollars. Taking savings, turning it into investment funds, learning from the investments, because some may work, some may not work. I think in a way, what you and I are talking about, and by the way, I know we don’t have a lot of time, I’d love to talk more about this at another time, where we’re really teaching our kids about the nature of an income journey. An income journey. An income journey about … It begins with talking to kids like I do with my grandson. I’ve been doing this for years with him now. He loves it.

First thing he does when he comes down the beach, he says, “Grandpa, do you have any jobs for me?” I said to him … because I get no help from anybody else in the family. I take care of everything in the garden. It’s not a complaint. I’m okay with it, but I use it as an opportunity to get my grandson to make money doing something which is relatively difficult. You get scratched by thorns, you got to put gloves on. There’s poison ivy. You have to know what poison ivy is. There’s obstacles in the real world that might get in the way of success. So we go out to the garden. I talk to him and say, “Let’s take a look at the garden. Is there anything in this garden that you got to be careful about before you jump in and take on the challenge of pulling the weeds and watering the plants?” And he now has a good eye for the garden.

The garden is not a bunch of stuff. It’s weeds that never go away, but that’s like debt. They never go away. And the plants are the savings. I’m kind of extrapolating here. So I say, “Let’s get a pair of gloves for you.” And I said, “So what do you want to do? You want to do one plant, one hydrangea? You want to weed one? Because you can’t feed the plants before you do the weeding, so you got to do that first.” That’s like you got to take care of the difficult stuff before you get rewarded. So I pay him a little more money for the weeds because this is a tougher job. Then when he’s done, he comes into the house, “Granddad, granddad, I’m done.” I say, “Okay.” I get up and I walk down with him, and we go out to the garden.

[inaudible 00:23:34], “Oh my God. Oh my God. I can’t believe what a great job you did. Look at that. This whole place over here, there are no weeds. How’d the poison ivy disappear? What did you do to the poison ivy?” He says, “Well, I put on gloves and I cut it with your big shears.” “That is phenomenal. That is brilliant.” I really make it and exaggerate it. He caught the pass. So he gets paid and he gets social approval, and I don’t take his job for granted, and I helped him build self-esteem. I reinforced his perseverance in the face of evil, like the thorns on the rose bushes and the poison ivy, and he has to be careful because if he’s not careful, he’ll tumble down the hill.

True.

Putting the tools away, cleaning the tools. That’s all part of the job.

Moss, I have to tell you, this reminds me also in that book, Reinvent Rich, back in 2018. We talk about the story of the muffin and how so many young people today go to Starbucks or other coffee shops and they buy their cup of coffee and their muffin, and it’s about $7, $8 a day. And I put a chart in the book, which showed you that if you put that same money in a tax-deferred account and you save it for the next 40 years earning a normalized average rate of return, you’ll be a millionaire. Let me see. That assumes that if there are taxes due, you pay it out of a different account, or you’ve put it into an IRA or a Roth or something similar. The point is, if you could have that cup of coffee at home, make your own muffins and take that same $7, $8 a day out 40, 45 years, you will be amazed that with doing nothing else, you’re a millionaire.

I’m not sure if you would agree with this, but I think financial wealth is a function of developing really good productive habits over time. Foundation skills and advanced skills such as work and carry out plans habitually, knowing how developing good work habits so it becomes a habit. For example, every morning I wake up, no matter what goes on, I make the bed, period. And then I feel, “Oh my God, I made the bed. Good for you, Moss.” Now somebody may say, “What’s the big deal?” I said, “Well, the big deal is I made the bed. I don’t have to make it at five o’clock. I made the bed.” Also, productive habits are resiliency, grit, perseverance. If teenagers and kids have resilience, bounce back like that football player I was telling you about, grit, try different good things.

Now, we live in a society now where parents are very protective. When I was a kid, I was out in the street at dawn playing stickball, and I never saw my parents until it was dark. But we’ve gone through a period of time where the news were: watch out for kidnappers, watch out for your kids being shot. There’s a [inaudible 00:26:26] in the air of fear. So often parents don’t teach their kids resiliency. They hover. Helicopter parents. They don’t want the kids to fail because they think success is a function of winning all the time. It’s not true. Winning is a function of good habits, including resilience, grit, perseverance.

I think also another thing. Parents teaching kids good social skills; emotional intelligence, self-awareness, self-control, empathy and caring for others, problem solving. I think all this goes into financial wealth by the way. If you have emotional intelligence and you go into a room and you don’t try to impress people, but you listen to people and you join the conversation, people will say, “My God, that person is fun to be with.” I’ll tell you a story about listening if we have time. Years ago, my brother lives … He’s a distinguished professor up in University of Buffalo, and he can do anything he wants. He’s that advanced. He’s written 55 books. I’m a piker. I’ve only written seven.

55 books your brother’s written?

Yeah, he’s absolutely brilliant. He has this dinner, which he does on a regular basis, a long table of 12 people, and he has people who are acclaimed writers, acclaimed lawyers, accomplished writers, artists, musicians. You read about these people and these are at the table, and they’re chatting, and this one guy was talking about astrophysics. He was an astrophysicist. I got into a conversation with him and the table stopped and listened to our conversation. My brother said afterwards, “I didn’t know you knew a lot about astrophysics.” I said, “Bruce, I know nothing about astrophysics. I was just curious. I was just asking questions and based upon what he said, I probed further.” People like to be questioned and probed because they like to talk. They’re not interested in what I have to say. They’re interested in talking and getting feedback and being stimulated, and finding people who enjoy what they want to say.

I learned to be a good listener because that was one of my survival techniques growing up. When I listen well, when I’m curious, which is a very important emotional intelligence skill, and then when I went up, my wife left the room. The next morning, she said, “Moss, I had to go to bed. I had such a headache and I could not stand you having that conversation and bringing the table to a standstill. How the hell did you know about astrophysics?” I said, “Sweetie, I know nothing about it. I’m a good listener.” And she said, “That makes me hate you even more than I hate you. I just thought you were engaging and having this …” I was, but it was through curiosity, not trying to impress. That’s a great social skill that teenagers need to learn when they’re doing the room.

For example, in most business networking events, you go around trying to convince the other person you’re brilliant. You talk for three or four minutes, give them a card. Say, “Here’s my number, call me. I can help you out,” in contrast to … I was at a Philadelphia business meeting many years ago talking to a guy I really liked. We were talking about kayaks because he was going out to buy an ocean kayak. I think it was a 12 foot, 14 foot kayak. We’re having this conversation because I would like to buy Kayak, but I didn’t know much about it. And this other guy comes over, barges in, almost pushes me out of the way, says, “Hey, Nick, good to see you. Hey, I only have a couple of minutes. I just want to let you know what I’m doing. I think we could do some really good work together. Give me …”

And the guy said, “Stop. Stop. Just stop. I’m talking to Moss about something really important. You just have stepped in and interrupted. Back off. I’ll talk to you later.” The guy backed off, turned to me, and we carried on the conversation. Now, this happened over 25 years ago. I remember him. If he ever called me for business, I would do business with him because he and I were both … He knew I was listening, and I always asked questions, and he knew I was interested. So the bond came through curiosity, used that word before, listening, acknowledging, appreciating, and not doing, “Hey, let me tell you my story.” No, I didn’t want to compete with him. He was going away to South America to live and he was bringing a kayak with him.

You know Moss, it speaks directly to the early part of our conversation here on this podcast about developing a curiosity in our children, and in your case, in your grandchildren, of what does it take to develop grit and determination through the money in a very positive spirited way, where you say to them, “Hey, I need your help, and there’s a payment or a reward,” or however you want to label it, “for you helping me out.” And them leaning forward and raising their hand and saying, “Tell me more.” And you have that conversation. And they say, “Okay, I want to do those things. I want to make my bed. I want to clear the dishes. I want to load the dishwasher. I want to make the $5. That’s good for me.” But once they made it one day, and the next day, and the next day, if they’re visiting you at the shore for a week, you’re developing this repetitive I’m in, I’m in, I’m in, which subliminally develops a stronger relationship between you and your grandchildren.

Yes.

I think it’s a huge takeaway for our listeners today to say it’s not that complicated. But you have to make the time and you have to be committed and you have to be consistent, and your children will develop that sense of responsibility, which they may not get in the schools, they might, they might not, but they’ll get it at home, and they’ll get it in a safe environment that they don’t have to be afraid of. Develop that sense of curiosity in your kids. Instead of trying to tell them what to do, offer them opportunities to make a buck by doing the kinds of things that will promote family unity, give you a sense of helping them out, or I should say them helping you out while you help them out. They begin to develop that culture of … I want to say there are a lot of good things that can happen if you bridge the gap of the multiple working parents to say, “We’re still going to make the time to be together, discuss these things, and have this incentive program where you help me out with the projects I need, I help you out with a strong payment which will help build your future.” And voila, this savings and investment culture that we want to create blossoms within the family unit. I think that’s really the big takeaway.

What I want to say to you, that I’ve enjoyed this tremendously. I think our listeners are going to gain an awful lot from these insights. I think this will help families to create that family culture of saving and investing, which we’re trying hard to bring together within the families we serve. I also want to just tell you that for our listeners that haven’t seen it yet, Who’s On Your Dream Team? Just came out, my latest book which talks about how a fiduciary firm like ours, who are in a minority in America, are essential to any successful family that wants to have the kind of partnership experience with the firm that puts the client’s interest ahead of the firm’s. We think that’s essential, and every family deserves that. Thank you for being with us today, Moss. Thank you for your insights, and we look forward to future podcasts together.

It was fun. I really enjoyed it.